Dialing yourself into a Computrainer

[Ray Huang]

I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.

Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?

But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.

What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.

Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.

Thanks,
Ray

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[Greg Steele]

Three words.

Use erg mode.

G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Ray Huang]

I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?

TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Greg Steele]

For testing the untested, I have used flat_course for multi-laps in 3d
mode and let them self pace for 20mins (if that is the test you want
to perform).

As speed goes up, power goes up. Cadence and gears are self-selected.

For the truely untested (especially those who are unacustomed
to)self-pacing for that long!), Monod works well.

Hth,

G

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Ray Huang]

Thanks. I set-up a 1 mile LOOP and a 14 mile course. Tomorrow I will
use the 1 mile loop set to about 12 to 14 laps to make sure there is
no way he can finish it in 20 minutes. I am worried a bit about him
going over the 24mph range where the CT is calibrated. I was doing
intervals today at only 80 cadnce and 240 to 260 watts and was already
at 20mph. This with a flat, windless course. I am making it a priority
to keep everyone in that 14 to 24mph range.


I am guessing form racing with him alll summer that he is more than
capable of doing 280 to 320 range and I suspsect will be close to 100
cadence. he strong and a spinner.

Post by Greg Steele
For testing the untested, I have used flat_course for multi-laps in 3d
mode and let them self pace for 20mins (if that is the test you want
to perform).
As speed goes up, power goes up. Cadence and gears are self-selected.
For the truely untested (especially those who are unacustomed
to)self-pacing for that long!), Monod works well.
Hth,
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Steve Lindell]

You can tweak the resistance with the rider weight setting as it is
used in the wind resistance calculation. If they are strong give them
more weight. You can play around and see what power/weight values you
get at 24 mph to give you a tuning chart.

Post by Ray Huang
Thanks. I set-up a 1 mile LOOP and a 14 mile course. Tomorrow I will
use the 1 mile loop set to about 12 to 14 laps to make sure there is
no way he can finish it in 20 minutes. I am worried a bit about him
going over the 24mph range where the CT is calibrated. I was doing
intervals today at only 80 cadnce and 240 to 260 watts and was already
at 20mph. This with a flat, windless course. I am making it a priority
to keep everyone in that 14 to 24mph range.
I am guessing form racing with him alll summer that he is more than
capable of doing 280 to 320 range and I suspsect will be close to 100
cadence. he strong and a spinner.

Post by Greg Steele
For testing the untested, I have used flat_course for multi-laps in 3d
mode and let them self pace for 20mins (if that is the test you want
to perform).
As speed goes up, power goes up.  Cadence and gears are self-selected.
For the truely untested (especially those who are unacustomed
to)self-pacing for that long!), Monod works well.
Hth,
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat  race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation.  This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then?  Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example).  But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see  15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Bruce Diesel]

Best test on the computrainer for someone that is new/untested is a
RAMP test (or MAP test ala Ric Stern). That will give you a ballpark
threshold which they can use to pace themselves in a 20min effort.
The nice thing about a RAMP test is that it removes the need for
pacing the effort, which new athletes find difficult.

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Bruce Diesel]

Best test on the computrainer for someone that is new/untested is a
RAMP test (or MAP test ala Ric Stern). That will give you a ballpark
threshold which they can use to pace themselves in a 20min effort.
The nice thing about a RAMP test is that it removes the need for
pacing the effort, which new athletes find difficult.

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation. This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then? Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example). But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see 15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[daveryanwyoming]

If you really want an open ended TT style test I'd just use the fixed
resistance mode and bump the levels up or down as necessary. Good
results shouldn't be tied to an exact cadence/gear relationship, your
power shouldn't vary that much between say a cadence of 85 and 95 rpm
even if you'd prefer a steady 90. I guess you've gotta ask what would
happen while testing outdoors on the road if a slight headwind or road
grade forced you to adapt a bit in terms of gears or cadence. The
results shouldn't be any less accurate indoors if you have to adjust
to conditions a bit as long as the trainer resistance is reasonably
close for the rider and available gears.

But like Greg, I tend to use erg mode for most of my training and my
testing. You could use a ramped MAP test in erg mode or you could use
erg mode at a few representative power settings and track sustained
time for driving a Monod spreadsheet. The point is there are a lot of
ways to test and if exact cadence is important for you then go with
erg mode and use a test protocol that makes sense. Using erg mode with
something like a 20min*0.95 test method is a self fulfilling prophecy,
it's not much of a test if you fix both the duration and power level
before starting.

-Dave

Post by Ray Huang
I have thought about that for me since I know my threshold (think I
know my threshold power). but what about testing someone to give them
their threshold HR and power? For example someone untested?
TIA,
Ray

Post by Greg Steele
Three words.
Use erg mode.
G

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat  race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation.  This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then?  Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example).  But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see  15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[rmurphy]

are you using an old 6-7-8 spd block perhaps?

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat  race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation.  This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then?  Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example).  But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see  15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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[Coach Bob]

If you use a flat course and a cassette with 1 tooth jumps the athlete
should be able to find an acceptable gear to give near optimal
cadence.
If you are concerned about the speed range you can adjust the drag
factor. If the cassette has 2 tooth jumps and the athlete needs the
gear in between the two they will probably not be comfortable doing a
20' test.

Bob

Post by Ray Huang
I have only had my CT for a week, but I already have found myself
dialing it in to suit me, which I suppose is fine. For example to hit
a power number at a set cadence I adjust the exercise mode
(resistance) in General Exercise mode so my power/cadence are in line.
Today I used a flat  race course for the same workout hooked to my
laptop and found my choices in two possible gears to do the workout in
were way above and way below my target wattage. So to use a mode where
I can store data (.csv file) for me I would have to add some wind to
the course or slight elevation.  This is getting tedious already.
Maybe these workouts I should just use the KK and my Powertap?
But heres my question. When putting other athletes on your CT for say
a 20 minute Threshold test or longer, does it affect the outcome if
the athlete is unable to find the perfect gear/cadence to maximize
their output? Say they have a self prescribed cadence of 90 and they
keep flipping between two gears. One they feel is too easy and the
other they immediately start to labor and voice that they cant go on.
What to do then?  Stop the test, modify the course and redo or just go
with the numbers you got and retest later with a better course suited
to the athlete? As far as I can tell there is no way to change the
course mid race (add headwind for example).  But i have noticed that
very small chnags in rpm can make a big difference in wattage. My
friend and I see  15 watt differnce in wattage with a 3 rpm chnage in
the same gear. For a long sustained effort to exhaustion, 3 rpm or 15
watts could make or break you.
Of course I understand being that sensitive to a prescribed cadence is
probably not a good thing.
Thanks,
Ray

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