SRM Indoor Trainer vs Velotron

Discussion:

BdaGhisallo

2008-02-25 18:53:40 UTC

Which one of these would be the way to go for an indoor trainer? I am
not much interested in riding pre-programmed courses or in too much pc
integration so I am looking mainly at the quality of the trainer
itself. Does anyone have any experience with the latest generation of
the srm trainer?

I have a second srm system that I can throw on the srm trainer. is
the flywheel in the srm trainer superior to the velotron?

What would you guys get if you had the choice?

thanks,
Geoff
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Eric Lin

2008-02-25 19:57:22 UTC

Permalink

One SRM dealer has said that the SRM trainer is just a glorified
exercise bike. He uses a CT himself and would get a VT if he had the
scratch.

I suppose it depends on whether you need an adjustable frame or not.

As much as I like SRM cranks, their trainer is a terrible value. You
could get a spin bike for $1000 and put SRM cranks on it. Think of the
SRM trainer as a $7000 CycleOps 300PT.

Both myself and a friend went the VT route.

I doubt the SRM's flywheel is better since it's slightly lighter and
doesn't concentrate most of its mass on the rim like the VT.

Post by BdaGhisallo
Which one of these would be the way to go for an indoor trainer? I am
not much interested in riding pre-programmed courses or in too much pc
integration so I am looking mainly at the quality of the trainer
itself. Does anyone have any experience with the latest generation of
the srm trainer?
I have a second srm system that I can throw on the srm trainer. is
the flywheel in the srm trainer superior to the velotron?
What would you guys get if you had the choice?
thanks,
Geoff

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Whareagle

2008-02-25 20:14:09 UTC

Permalink

Let me chime in here real quick.

The CT at least has what I call a "clutch", so that when you get below
about 40-50w, you're relying solely on rolling resistance, and it
allows you to spin to recover, especially in a CompCS or in MR3 cs
workouts. When you're on a Tron, if you can't 'make' wattage, the
thing literally grinds to a halt, and the only thing you can do to
sort of recover is pedal backwards. It's sort of a PITA...

Sincerely,

Rich Wharton
USAC Level 1 Coach

Post by Eric Lin
One SRM dealer has said that the SRM trainer is just a glorified
exercise bike. He uses a CT himself and would get a VT if he had the
scratch.
I suppose it depends on whether you need an adjustable frame or not.
As much as I like SRM cranks, their trainer is a terrible value. You
could get a spin bike for $1000 and put SRM cranks on it. Think of the
SRM trainer as a $7000 CycleOps 300PT.
Both myself and a friend went the VT route.
I doubt the SRM's flywheel is better since it's slightly lighter and
doesn't concentrate most of its mass on the rim like the VT.

Eric Lin

2008-02-25 20:44:30 UTC

Permalink

That's only a problem in "charts" erg mode. You always have the option
of running in manual erg mode where you can adjust the wattage on the
fly (and you can turn it down so low that you can turn the cranks by
hand). Or you could run it in 3D mode where the resistance depends on
the virtual course terrain, your virtual gearing, and cadence. In
other words, it's no different than the SRM trainer except you can
probably more finely tune resistance.

Out of all the modes, I use charts erg mode almost exclusively. The
ability to pre-program workouts is very handy even if there isn't a
convenient way to resume the workout if you fail at some point. I can
tell when I'm about to fail because I won't be able to maintain
cadence. Usually, I can tough it out until the end of the interval and
then start again at a lower power output or if I'm having a really bad
day, bail altogether.

Unless the VT is set at 300+ watts and you're completely wasted, you
should be able to spin the flywheel back up against the brake. The
problem is when the VT is currently set at a high load and brakes the
flywheel more rapidly than you can accelerate it. Like I said, you
have to be really, really tired AND the VT has to be set near your L6
power for this to happen. At that point, you probably want to abort
and do L2 or L3 instead anyway.

The SRM trainer doesn't have erg mode which is why it has no added
features above an $1800 CycleOps 300PT.
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BdaGhisallo

2008-02-25 21:19:33 UTC

Permalink

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the srm trainer looks a little
overpriced for what it is but it seems to fit what I would want the
best. The cycleops bike looks too much like a gym bike in that all of
its parts seem to be proprietary. I would want to put on an srm and
put on a road bike seat post and saddle and a road handlebar. That
doesn't look possible with the Cycleops. Or am I wrong on that one.

The velotron looks more expensive, but at the same time you are
getting a lot more features. However I don't know if I would ever
much use the erg functions or do things like wingate testing. I
mainly want something that I can get on and have it feel identical,
contact point wise, to my road bike, and for it to have a reasonably
authentic road feel. I hate riding regular mag trainers. The
jerkiness of the tire/roller contact and the lack of any real flywheel
make it feel crappy. Plus, I can never seem to get the bike set up so
that it is vertical. Torquing around on the bike always seem to
impart a lean angle to the bike.

I sound like I have talked myself into the SRM, if I get any of them,
but the cost is still holding me back a little. It seems like it
would do pretty much all that I would want. I want to get on and ride
and gauge my effort by the readout on the powercontrol. I would maybe
get the online feature too.

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Todd Smiland

2008-02-25 22:06:10 UTC

Permalink

This is older technology, but can't be beat for accuracy and realistic road
feel.

I would give this strong consideration before paying more. Mine is more
than 15 years old, looks its age, but is still going strong.

http://www.velodynesports.com/

If you already have an SRM, the combination of Velodyne and your power meter
can't be beat. I'm guessing quite a few folks on this list use that
combination.

Post by BdaGhisallo
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the srm trainer looks a little
overpriced for what it is but it seems to fit what I would want the
best. The cycleops bike looks too much like a gym bike in that all of
its parts seem to be proprietary. I would want to put on an srm and
put on a road bike seat post and saddle and a road handlebar. That
doesn't look possible with the Cycleops. Or am I wrong on that one.
The velotron looks more expensive, but at the same time you are
getting a lot more features. However I don't know if I would ever
much use the erg functions or do things like wingate testing. I
mainly want something that I can get on and have it feel identical,
contact point wise, to my road bike, and for it to have a reasonably
authentic road feel. I hate riding regular mag trainers. The
jerkiness of the tire/roller contact and the lack of any real flywheel
make it feel crappy. Plus, I can never seem to get the bike set up so
that it is vertical. Torquing around on the bike always seem to
impart a lean angle to the bike.
I sound like I have talked myself into the SRM, if I get any of them,
but the cost is still holding me back a little. It seems like it
would do pretty much all that I would want. I want to get on and ride
and gauge my effort by the readout on the powercontrol. I would maybe
get the online feature too.

Eric Lin

2008-02-25 22:30:55 UTC

Permalink

I went through a similar decision making process last year albeit with
somewhat different needs. I tried a Velotron, Velodyne, and CycleOps
200 (non-PT model but I wanted to see how it felt). I also looked at
the earlier model SRM trainer at their Colorado Springs location.

There are a lot of indoor bikes out there. Some look like gym bikes
but can easily replicate most road or TT positions. Some don't look
like gym bikes and can also replicate road positions. For example, the
BodyCraft Tour Trainer has a geared flywheel and looks like it can
take any saddle. I'm not sure about the crank but most indoor bikes
have 68 mm English BBs.

The two things you need to find out is whether you need an adjustable
frame and how much the SRM trainer sans cranks would cost. If you
don't need an adjustable frame then the VT (after the coach discount)
is around $4500. Since the SRM trainer with pro cranks is $7250, I
don't think it's going to be much cheaper than $4500 w/o cranks.

One thing you probably don't realize is how useful erg mode is. It
makes indoor riding much more tolerable because you don't have to set
the pace yourself. I used to ride rollers and 90 min on them was all I
could handle because I was constantly having to stare at the SRM and
adjust my power output. I also had to constantly "steer" the bike.
That made riding rollers more mentally fatiguing. On the VT, I don't
have to concentrate as much to ride. This winter, I did a 2:40 SST
workout nearly everyday. That really wouldn't be possible on a low
inertia trainer/rollers or without erg mode.

BdaGhisallo

2008-02-27 20:08:08 UTC

Permalink

Eric,

You say you looked at the SRM trainer. Did you get a chance to ride
it? And what is so useful about an erg function? I am a little
clueless on that aspect. I have an SRM system, and the bare trainer
is about $4500, as you suspected. It's a lot, but it seems to fit
what I want the best. I would imagine that the longest workouts I
would do on it would be an hour of intervals. I will probably use it
during the week when I can't get out on the road. Do you think I'll
be okay without the erg function? How about the SRM online option.
Getting the big visual feedback on your training may go a good way
toward helping with the pacing and boredom?

I looked at velotron and even without a bike frame attached, it's
still about $1K more than the SRM trainer I am looking at.

I am looking forward to your feedback. I am 98% of the way to pulling
the trigger and calling the SRM guys but I want some final affirmation
that I am on the right track.

Cheers and thanks much,
Geoff

Post by Eric Lin
I went through a similar decision making process last year albeit with
somewhat different needs. I tried a Velotron, Velodyne, and CycleOps
200 (non-PT model but I wanted to see how it felt). I also looked at
the earlier model SRM trainer at their Colorado Springs location.
There are a lot of indoor bikes out there. Some look like gym bikes
but can easily replicate most road or TT positions. Some don't look
like gym bikes and can also replicate road positions. For example, the
BodyCraft Tour Trainer has a geared flywheel and looks like it can
take any saddle. I'm not sure about the crank but most indoor bikes
have 68 mm English BBs.
The two things you need to find out is whether you need an adjustable
frame and how much the SRM trainer sans cranks would cost. If you
don't need an adjustable frame then the VT (after the coach discount)
is around $4500. Since the SRM trainer with pro cranks is $7250, I
don't think it's going to be much cheaper than $4500 w/o cranks.
One thing you probably don't realize is how useful erg mode is. It
makes indoor riding much more tolerable because you don't have to set
the pace yourself. I used to ride rollers and 90 min on them was all I
could handle because I was constantly having to stare at the SRM and
adjust my power output. I also had to constantly "steer" the bike.
That made riding rollers more mentally fatiguing. On the VT, I don't
have to concentrate as much to ride. This winter, I did a 2:40 SST
workout nearly everyday. That really wouldn't be possible on a low
inertia trainer/rollers or without erg mode.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the srm trainer looks a little
overpriced for what it is but it seems to fit what I would want the
best. The cycleops bike looks too much like a gym bike in that all of
its parts seem to be proprietary. I would want to put on an srm and
put on a road bike seat post and saddle and a road handlebar. That
doesn't look possible with the Cycleops. Or am I wrong on that one.
The velotron looks more expensive, but at the same time you are
getting a lot more features. However I don't know if I would ever
much use the erg functions or do things like wingate testing. I
mainly want something that I can get on and have it feel identical,
contact point wise, to my road bike, and for it to have a reasonably
authentic road feel. I hate riding regular mag trainers. The
jerkiness of the tire/roller contact and the lack of any real flywheel
make it feel crappy. Plus, I can never seem to get the bike set up so
that it is vertical. Torquing around on the bike always seem to
impart a lean angle to the bike.
I sound like I have talked myself into the SRM, if I get any of them,
but the cost is still holding me back a little. It seems like it
would do pretty much all that I would want. I want to get on and ride
and gauge my effort by the readout on the powercontrol. I would maybe
get the online feature too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Todd Smiland

2008-02-27 20:23:09 UTC

Permalink

I don't know why you wouldn't consider one of these.

Lacking in graphics, but features include very realistic road feel, accurate
ergometer capabilities, and very proven/durable. And 2/3d's the cost.

(Note: This isn't a 'Velotron', it's a 'Velodyne'. The names are often
confused.)

http://www.velodynesports.com/

Post by BdaGhisallo
Eric,
You say you looked at the SRM trainer. Did you get a chance to ride
it? And what is so useful about an erg function? I am a little
clueless on that aspect. I have an SRM system, and the bare trainer
is about $4500, as you suspected. It's a lot, but it seems to fit
what I want the best. I would imagine that the longest workouts I
would do on it would be an hour of intervals. I will probably use it
during the week when I can't get out on the road. Do you think I'll
be okay without the erg function? How about the SRM online option.
Getting the big visual feedback on your training may go a good way
toward helping with the pacing and boredom?
I looked at velotron and even without a bike frame attached, it's
still about $1K more than the SRM trainer I am looking at.
I am looking forward to your feedback. I am 98% of the way to pulling
the trigger and calling the SRM guys but I want some final affirmation
that I am on the right track.
Cheers and thanks much,
Geoff

- Show quoted text -

Eric Lin

2008-02-27 20:53:17 UTC

Permalink

- Show quoted text -

Eric Lin

2008-02-27 21:29:30 UTC

Permalink

Yes, there was one at the SRM Colorado Springs service center. It was
in a partly disassembled state so it wasn't rideable.

In a nutshell, erg mode lets you do better intervals. You can ride
harder and longer at lower PE. Even when you're tired.

The problem with rollers, trainers, and indoor bikes with manually
adjustable resistance is that they often don't have very fine or
repeatable resistance settings. So you'll find yourself between gears
or constantly fiddling with the resistance. In erg mode, you
essentially have infinitely fine gearing because it adjusts itself in
response to minute changes in cadence.

On rollers, I had quite a lot of adjustment with the resistance fan
and could fine tune it by changing gears. But I often had to stop
during intervals and get off the bike and adjust the fan a little
because I was in between gears (even with an 11-21 cassette). You can
program in some pretty complicated workouts. Step tests to exhaustion,
such as VO2max or MAP tests are a piece of cake. Could you imagine
doing one of those tests or a hard interval workout but have to fiddle
with a shifter and adjust your cadence while at the point of
exhaustion?

Doing some rough math, a good indoor bike without power measuring is
about $1000. I also have an extra SRM system and considered installing
it on an indoor bike but decided that erg mode was worth it. After
training on the VT, I realized it was even more valuable than I
imagined--easiliy worth several thousand dollars.

I decided against the Velodyne because it still used a tire-roller
interface and the one I tried didn't track well with my SRM. Its erg
mode took a long time to respond. It may have been in need of repair.
There were other issues with the Velodyne discussed in a thread from
about a year ago that contributed to my decision to pass over the VD.

The Velotron is basically a Computrainer with a much better "feel" and
much more accuracy. They share the same 3D virtual cycling and erg
mode. A lot of people really like the 3D software because it keeps
them from being bored. Others, like myself, ride in erg mode almost
exclusively. I find that as long as I don't do L1/2 rides, I don't get
bored.

I made some significant gains in FTP during a relatively bad winter by
being able to do workouts I could not do outside, even in warm
weather. It's possible I could've done them on an indoor trainer with
high inertia like a 300PT or SRM trainer but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you got the SRM trainer, you'd probably be happy with it. But if
you trained on a VT afterwards, you'd probably be pretty upset you
didn't spend the extra $1000. In my opinion, a non-erg indoor trainer
offers about 15-25% of the utility of a VT. And with the SRM trainer,
it offers 15-25% of the utility for ~80% of the price. BTW, both my
friend and I paid around $4500 for ours.

The bottom line is the SRM is a really, really expensive exercise bike.
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funhog

2008-02-27 23:31:25 UTC

Permalink

I would highly recommend riding the SRM before you buy (very low
resale value on this unit). They also have two units up at the Olympic
Training Center gym in COS that we had the unfortunate experience of
having to ride for our workouts during the week long cycling summit
last year. It was junk, a boat anchor. I ended up finding a Lemond
spinmaster to ride on. The one at the service center was unrideable
because it was broken, no surprise there! Save your money and buy one
of the other units mentioned, they are well made in the USA, not china
(very poor quality manufacturing).

By the way, erg mode is a great way to set up a perfect watts based
workout. It is time/watts. You can do 5 sec to 25 min intervals at any
setting and it is automatic, you meet the wattage or fail. Easy to
program or get canned workouts from Training Peaks.

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BdaGhisallo

2008-02-28 19:51:24 UTC

Permalink

I am definitely hearing the warnings about the SRM trainer, but I am
still unsure about the Velotron. I talked to them and what I am stuck
on is the fact that you can't just get on it and ride it like a gym
bike, with no pc involved. Will I miss that? Is the 3D software good
to use? How much granularity can you program into the erg function?
What happens if you set up the erg to go at 250w but can only maintain
240w - does it shut down on you?

thanks,
Geoff

Post by funhog
I would highly recommend riding the SRM before you buy (very low
resale value on this unit). They also have two units up at the Olympic
Training Center gym in COS that we had the unfortunate experience of
having to ride for our workouts during the week long cycling summit
last year. It was junk, a boat anchor. I ended up finding a Lemond
spinmaster to ride on. The one at the service center was unrideable
because it was broken, no surprise there! Save your money and buy one
of the other units mentioned, they are well made in the USA, not china
(very poor quality manufacturing).
By the way, erg mode is a great way to set up a perfect watts based
workout. It is time/watts. You can do 5 sec to 25 min intervals at any
setting and it is automatic, you meet the wattage or fail. Easy to
program or get canned workouts from Training Peaks.

Jordan

2008-02-28 23:46:07 UTC

Permalink

1. The PC requirement is a pain in the tuchas and can ultimately add a
few hundred bucks to the Velotron's already prodigious cost if you're
not ready for it.

2. The 3D software is only "good" if you make it useful. Does it work?
Yes.

3. I believe you can program 5 watt increments.

4. You try 250 watts. You're at 100 rpm. Then 90 rpm. Still 250 watts.
80 rpm. 70. Still 250 watts. By the time you get to 40 rpm and 250
watts, you should be congratulated that you worked to failure. Mazel
tov!

Post by BdaGhisallo
I am definitely hearing the warnings about the SRM trainer, but I am
still unsure about the Velotron. I talked to them and what I am stuck
on is the fact that you can't just get on it and ride it like a gym
bike, with no pc involved. Will I miss that? Is the 3D software good
to use? How much granularity can you program into the erg function?
What happens if you set up the erg to go at 250w but can only maintain
240w - does it shut down on you?
thanks,
Geoff

Eric Lin

2008-02-29 06:03:49 UTC

Permalink

If the resistance is set to 250W, you have to do 250W or your body
will shut down on you. The VT will just be waiting for you to start
turning the pedals again.

To fail a workout and grind to a halt, you'd have to have a really bad
day or really overestimate the power you thought you could produce.
You'll quickly find out what you can and cannot do. If I have a bad
day or am a bit too ambitious in setting the resistance, what usually
happens is that I complete the workout but I suffer more than usual.

In either charts or manual erg mode, resistance can be set in 1W
increments. If you wanted to ride it as an exercise bike, you'd just
start it up in manual erg mode and you can change power whenever you
want. If you can't do 250W and find yourself in difficulty, you can
turn the resistance down in an instant. In that way, it's like a
Lifecycle or other electronic gym exercise bike.

The other way to "just ride" would be to run the 3D software and load
a course. This isn't erg mode so you can't "fail" the workout. It's
just like riding outdoors where the terrain and your gearing and
cadence determine the resistance.

You'll always need a PC to run the VT but I don't think it's an issue
because no ergometers or indoor bikes are that portable or would be
run in an area without electricity. I use an old laptop that I got for
free and set it on a small table in front of the VT.

BdaGhisallo

2008-02-28 00:31:57 UTC

Permalink

Eric,

thanks for that response. I am going to think long and hard about
this and I am going to explore the Velotron some more. You may have
just swayed me.

Thanks so much for taking the time to help with my decision,

Geoff

Post by Eric Lin
Yes, there was one at the SRM Colorado Springs service center. It was
in a partly disassembled state so it wasn't rideable.
In a nutshell, erg mode lets you do better intervals. You can ride
harder and longer at lower PE. Even when you're tired.
The problem with rollers, trainers, and indoor bikes with manually
adjustable resistance is that they often don't have very fine or
repeatable resistance settings. So you'll find yourself between gears
or constantly fiddling with the resistance. In erg mode, you
essentially have infinitely fine gearing because it adjusts itself in
response to minute changes in cadence.
On rollers, I had quite a lot of adjustment with the resistance fan
and could fine tune it by changing gears. But I often had to stop
during intervals and get off the bike and adjust the fan a little
because I was in between gears (even with an 11-21 cassette). You can
program in some pretty complicated workouts. Step tests to exhaustion,
such as VO2max or MAP tests are a piece of cake. Could you imagine
doing one of those tests or a hard interval workout but have to fiddle
with a shifter and adjust your cadence while at the point of
exhaustion?
Doing some rough math, a good indoor bike without power measuring is
about $1000. I also have an extra SRM system and considered installing
it on an indoor bike but decided that erg mode was worth it. After
training on the VT, I realized it was even more valuable than I
imagined--easiliy worth several thousand dollars.
I decided against the Velodyne because it still used a tire-roller
interface and the one I tried didn't track well with my SRM. Its erg
mode took a long time to respond. It may have been in need of repair.
There were other issues with the Velodyne discussed in a thread from
about a year ago that contributed to my decision to pass over the VD.
The Velotron is basically a Computrainer with a much better "feel" and
much more accuracy. They share the same 3D virtual cycling and erg
mode. A lot of people really like the 3D software because it keeps
them from being bored. Others, like myself, ride in erg mode almost
exclusively. I find that as long as I don't do L1/2 rides, I don't get
bored.
I made some significant gains in FTP during a relatively bad winter by
being able to do workouts I could not do outside, even in warm
weather. It's possible I could've done them on an indoor trainer with
high inertia like a 300PT or SRM trainer but I wouldn't bet on it.
If you got the SRM trainer, you'd probably be happy with it. But if
you trained on a VT afterwards, you'd probably be pretty upset you
didn't spend the extra $1000. In my opinion, a non-erg indoor trainer
offers about 15-25% of the utility of a VT. And with the SRM trainer,
it offers 15-25% of the utility for ~80% of the price. BTW, both my
friend and I paid around $4500 for ours.
The bottom line is the SRM is a really, really expensive exercise bike.

Alex Simmons

2008-02-25 22:56:51 UTC

Permalink

Here the story so far on my own indoor trainer project:

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/my-own-trainer-project.html

BdaGhisallo

2008-02-26 09:33:32 UTC

Permalink

Alex,

Those home made trainers look awesome! Good luck with your rehab.

Thanks so much for your help.

Geoff
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Ouroboros

2008-02-27 09:19:09 UTC

Permalink

Good luck with the project. It looks a little hardcore for me so I'll
stick the computrainer! However I noticed your comment on safety and
my unprotected rear spoked wheel has always worried me when I'm
training in the spare room with the possibility of your kids sneaking
up (I try to keep them out of the room I'm training in..but just in
case)

Any idea where those big perspex covers are made? Or does anyone
reckon the wheelbuilder.com wheel covers would be okay for psuedo
protection?

Cheers

Post by Alex Simmons
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/my-own-trainer-project.html

Adam Myerson

2008-02-27 14:13:58 UTC

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Alex, did you take at look at the BT erg at any point?

http://www.biketechnologies.com/content/view/23/lang,en

I didn't see it in your list of options you reviewed in the description on
your blog, and it looks like you almost built your own version, to a degree!

Adam

Post by Alex Simmons
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/my-own-trainer-project.html

Alex Simmons

2008-02-27 19:47:12 UTC

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Yeah - I had considered it. No significant flywheel and it was $2,200
three years ago sans power meter (OK a cateye computer showing speed
and a speed/power curve data supplied).

Handy unit given you can hook most bikes up to it.

Post by Adam Myerson
Alex, did you take at look at the BT erg at any point?
http://www.biketechnologies.com/content/view/23/lang,en
I didn't see it in your list of options you reviewed in the description on
your blog, and it looks like you almost built your own version, to a degree!
Adam

Post by Alex Simmons
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/my-own-trainer-project.html

J***@aol.com

2008-02-26 10:54:07 UTC

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In a message dated 2/26/2008 4:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, ***@bmid.bm
writes:

Alex,

Those home made trainers look awesome! Good luck with your rehab.

Thanks so much for your help.

Geoff

I would love to have eddy current braking on the PT300...

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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Alex Simmons

2008-02-26 11:34:52 UTC

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Post by J***@aol.com
I would love to have eddy current braking on the PT300...

I'll update how I go with the rare earth magnets and if it turns out
to be a workable solution - it sure would work on a PT 300.

Different flywheel speeds with the PT300 though, so not sure how that
affects things.

I expect my trainer flywheel to be running in the vicinity of 650 rpm
during solid aerobic efforts. At ~ 35kg and ~ 630mm diameter, I
figure rotational kinetic energy of about 8,000J or equivalent to 90kg
travelling at 48 kph. Hmmm, maybe I need to trim a little more off
the flywheel.
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Steve

2008-02-26 18:21:51 UTC

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Alex,

I think this an awesome project and hope it all works out OK. I'm
interested as I may go down this route myself after making a huge
difference to my indoor training just by building a weighted wheel and
using it on the standard trainer.

Your project sounds like the best way to go. I'm wondering how your
going to make the flywheel though or whether you've found something
that can be modified. I was looking into getting hold of a scrap
turbine disc from a gas turbine (easy to get perfect balance and ideal
for high speed rotation). You might be able to get something ready
made that can be adapted by looking through industrial scrap.

Personally I would just alter the gearing and spin the heavier
flywheel slower rather than going the high speed lighter mass
approach.

Steve

Post by Alex Simmons

Post by J***@aol.com
I would love to have eddy current braking on the PT300...

flywheel.
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Alex Simmons

2008-02-26 21:38:17 UTC

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Thanks. The flywheel is already available. My buddy had four of them
made years ago and and only used one in the end.

There are three lying around waiting to be used. The machine shop has
offered to cut them down free of charge. That could be any sort of
cutting from reducing the diameter to removing any shape we like from
the interior of the wheel.

Experience with the prototype suggested that using the full weighted
flywheel made it just a little too easy and removing some weight
brought it back to road feel.

Reducing the gearing is always an option too. The double reduction
gearing is needed however to simulate the demands of accelerations.

Post by Steve
Alex,
I think this an awesome project and hope it all works out OK. I'm
interested as I may go down this route myself after making a huge
difference to my indoor training just by building a weighted wheel and
using it on the standard trainer.
Your project sounds like the best way to go. I'm wondering how your
going to make the flywheel though or whether you've found something
that can be modified. I was looking into getting hold of a scrap
turbine disc from a gas turbine (easy to get perfect balance and ideal
for high speed rotation). You might be able to get something ready
made that can be adapted by looking through industrial scrap.
Personally I would just alter the gearing and spin the heavier
flywheel slower rather than going the high speed lighter mass
approach.
Steve

Post by Alex Simmons

Post by J***@aol.com
I would love to have eddy current braking on the PT300...

flywheel.

J***@aol.com

2008-02-26 11:02:31 UTC

Permalink

Anyone have any experience with an Expresso Fitness Trainer?
_http://www.expresso.com/index.html_ (http://www.expresso.com/index.html)

OK, they look like a gym toy, but the feel is quite realistic. The power
reading seems accurate, but I could not find any accuracy claims. Honestly, I
was not big on VR trainers before riding this thing, but I must admit it was
kinda fun. Drawbacks are size, price ($5K) and lack of position tuning.

John

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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Eric Lin

2008-02-26 22:59:22 UTC

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No personal experience but:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363165

It seems really expensive for an electronic exercise bike. You could
get the new LeMond one for $2300 or so or, better yet, a basic
Velotron.
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J***@aol.com

2008-02-27 00:05:22 UTC

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In a message dated 2/26/2008 5:59:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
***@gmail.com writes:

No personal experience but:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363165

It seems really expensive for an electronic exercise bike. You could
get the new LeMond one for $2300 or so or, better yet, a basic
Velotron.

I do like the feel of the thing. Has anyone compared its feel to a
Velotron(dyne). I like the Expresso's feel better than my PT300 Pro, but the
Expresso has too many other negatives to go run out and buy one.

John

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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Eric Lin

2008-02-27 00:54:40 UTC

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Have you ridden a Velotron or Velodyne?

The VT's flywheel will still be spinning when I get out of the shower
after a workout (if I power it off). I can't imagine the "feel" to be
that much better without some kind of geared flywheel (I think the SRM
ergometer has one).

I'm very sensitive to "road feel"/inertia and the VT feels fine to me.
I never felt right on any rollers or trainer. Even the Kurt Kinetic
with the 18(?) lb flywheel or Kreitlers with a flywheel.

Since the Expresso is basically the same price as a VT, it should be a
no brainer.

Post by J***@aol.com
In a message dated 2/26/2008 5:59:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363165
It seems really expensive for an electronic exercise bike. You could
get the new LeMond one for $2300 or so or, better yet, a basic
Velotron.
I do like the feel of the thing. Has anyone compared its feel to a
Velotron(dyne). I like the Expresso's feel better than my PT300 Pro, but the
Expresso has too many other negatives to go run out and buy one.
John
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-cam...
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

J***@aol.com

2008-02-29 14:29:01 UTC

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In a message dated 2/28/2008 6:46:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
***@gmail.com writes:

1. The PC requirement is a pain in the tuchas and can ultimately add a
few hundred bucks to the Velotron's already prodigious cost if you're
not ready for it.

Isn't the SRM's price equally prodigious for something far less elegant?

Nevertheless, I did not realize the SRM is magnetically braked. In fact, it
uses a design I am trying to emulate on my PT300 Pro!

Hint to Saris -- I would pay $$$ for an add-on magnetic brake for the PT300
Pro....

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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